The Unjust Hate Behind Weak Male Anime Leads
Whenever an anime series is airing where the main character is weak/pathetic/lame, a lot of hate goes out to them. Though, in contrast to those those people, I actually tend to really like these types of characters in anime. The most recent incident of this unjust hate is with Yukiteru from Mirai Nikki. Though the king of weak characters, who is still complained about today, is definitely Shinji Ikari.
To this day, I still read about people complaining how all Shinji does is complain and how they believe Neon Genesis would have been better without him. The people who are in his defence, always just say Shinji’s behaviour is the same as any other fourteen year old teen. And ya, that age tons tend to have its angst, but even I will admit that Shinji is most definitely more angsty than most. Though, that quality really doesn’t bother me. Not because it shows a realistic character, but because I appreciate seeing a different character from the norm and these types of characters tend to be a lot more interesting.
Of course my use of the word “lame” or “weak” is a loose term and I mean it more in reference to a character’s personality, but in many series if a character didn’t have the help from one special thing, they would otherwise be just weak and powerless.
By this I mean if you were to take a look at Code Geass or Kuroshitsuji, and then you were to take away the Geass power or the the demon butler, those main characters would be instantly powerless. Although a character like Lelouch is at different degree of weak as with Shinji and doesn’t complain all the time, that quality is there, and yet he is loved by many.
There are obviously also exceptions, buto n average when you compare a “weak” lead to the “average” lead, you tend to get a much more complex character and usually better series with the former. Take a look at the lead male characters in Special A or Gosick. Those average characters really don’t help to make their below average series any better.
Of course I’m giving subjective examples, but if you take a look at any harem-lead character, he definitely won’t be very interesting. The only example I can think that opposes this rule of weak characters being interesting along with their series, is Chaos;Head. That anime is terrible any way you look at it….
I think a series that breaks the bounds of the common character perfectly is Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. On one hand you have Simon, who starts off as a weak character with his own little angsty phase (reached its peak in episode 9), but as the series went on his personality really did change in a way I’m sure most people really appreciated.
On the other hand in Gurren Lagann, we have a character like Kamina, who is the complete opposite of the type of character I’m trying to defend. He doesn’t get much back story and is actually quite a flat character, but is still someone who is incredibly amazing! He actually does have the norm personality of anime, but he differs by bringing it to level 11. On a personality scale, just like a weak character is on one end of the scale, a guy like Kamina is on the other end of the scale, which helps to make him interesting too. Though a lot of people would like more characters to be like Kamina, if they all were, it would be dull personality. Also imagine if someone like Yukiteru was as confident as Kamina? Yuno would then just be pointless.
I think this idea can ultimately boil down to another classic debate with Catcher in the Rye. You will no doubt find as many people who love this novel as people who hate it. (Irrelevant note, its actually pretty interesting how often this novel is referenced in anime). I understand how so many people will continue to hate Holden (or a weak/angsty male anime lead) mainly because he complains a lot, which is the common case with other weak male leads.
Sure some people are still going to hate a character because they complain so much and sometimes avoid an otherwise great anime because of it, but is that really a good enough reason? Are the emotions your feeling even unique or are you reacting the way the creator wants you to feel? No matter what the intentions are behind creating male leads with weak personalities, I would rather another Shinji any day versus the countless forgettable faces we find in the majority of series.
Lelouch would have been #$()$#% awesome with or without his Geass. It just would have set back his plans a bit, that’s all.
I think what most people object to (at least what I object to) is not weak characters per se, but weak characters with weak characterizations. Shinji is a great character: he’s weak but he’s a weak character that you can feel sorry for and / or hate. The kind of weak character I can’t stand is like Kujo in the first half of Gosick, or the male lead in Guilty Crown. Weak characters with good characterizations are great, strong characters with weak characterizations or at least mildly entertaining, but weak characters with weak characterizations induce suicidal thoughts.
draggle´s latest post ..Fate / Zero 09 — Amputations and Alchemy
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
You’re giving Lelouch the benefit of the doubt. He lived in Area 11 for quite a while and never bothered to do anything but play chess.
But ya, you do raise a very valid point. It’s true that hate does go out (almost justifiably so) to characters like Kujo and Shu, but in the cases with someone like Shinji people still hate him too (the proof is all over the internet). A lot of it though, from what people tell me, is that they just hate when characters complain a lot.
[Reply]
rikusoraleon Reply:
March 24th, 2012 at 10:35 pm
You contradict yourself. You say that Lelouch is a weak character because he depends on his Geass, yet you say that physically weakness is all right and what is not is weak-willed. Lelouch is never, EVER characterized as being weak-willed. He has the strongest will in the entire series, otherwise how could he achieve so much? You also forget that without his Geass, Lelouch is still one of the most intelligent people in the world. Ultimately, it is his intellect which won him most of his victories, the Geass only helped him achieve things easier/faster.
[Reply]
Like draggle says, you may be conflating two distinct things: weak characters aren’t necessarily lamely constructed/written/executed characters.
Ikari Shinji is 9001 times more watchable than Ouma Shu. Seriously, fuck that turd.
ghostlightning´s latest post ..The Eternal Captain: Bright Noa in Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn 04
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
That’s not really what I’m saying. I don’t think that weak characters are “lamely constructed/written/executed characters” I find them to be much more interesting and complex in contrast to other characters.
[Reply]
Special A’s male lead…. average? SERIOUSLY? He’s more like one of the perfect bishie types ^^;
I’m not sure if Simon is counted as the weak type. He just didn’t have confidence.
Gotta agree with draggle and ghostlightning. Weak characters are actually okay, if only well characterized.
But I still hate Shinji. But not exactly for beign weak.
Sapphire Pyro´s latest post ..[ Manga Discovery + Anime Promotion] Inu x Boku S.S.
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
Don’t get me started with Special A…
Shinji didn’t have confidence either? Simon wasn’t necessarily “weak”, but he was filled with angst in episode 9, and part of my point is that by the end, he changed completely.
I agree to this, too.
So why do you hate Shinji, then?
[Reply]
Sapphire Pyro Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 9:09 am
About Special A… well, okay ^^;
“Simon wasn’t necessarily “weak”, but he was filled with angst” = I’m confused… so you’re referring to the angsty ones?
LOLz, to be honest, I can’t remember why I hate him either *hasn’t seen Evangelion for like… YEARS* Perhaps it’s out of biased reasons *a Rei and Kaworu fan* Hahahahaha!
I’m actually more annoyed with the weak heroines. They’re BIGGER in number *facepalm*
Sapphire Pyro´s latest post ..[ Anime Blurbs ] Autumn 2011 Anime – Part 7
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Well it’s hard to categorize Simon when he actually had so much character development since day 1. At the beginning of the series (first episode specifically) his character was weak in personality, he felt nothing towards his own existence. This changed more and more till episode 8 (which would be a spoiler to reveal) after in episode 9 he reverts back to being that weak self and angst usually ensues, which is why I used that word. But this is what I was trying to say. He’s one of the cases where he manages to have a drastic change in the end, which isn’t the case with most (like Shinji).
Lol, I never really hear that often about supporters for Kaworu and Rei!
Most definitely female leads could get their own post to why I dislike them, but there was only so much to say besides the fact that in most cases they believe their only purpose in life is to find a man.
[Reply]
Personally, I enjoy bashing weenies. As for useless harem leads, their only purpose is to suffer physically and mentally for my amusement…as long as the girls who are brainwashed by him are likable and have a distinct style in their beatings. It’s essential that they destroy his body and sanity with style…or else they’ll suffer the same fate as Dai-sensei and Seraphim from “Kore-wa Zombie Desu-ka?!”…my eternal hatred.
Back to people who drop shows because the male lead is a weenie or sucks…that didn’t stop them from watching To Aru Majutsu no Index, did it? Good gravy Touma sucks.
Overlord-G´s latest post ..139th G-View: CinAnime 12; Tekken: Blood Vengeance
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
You bring up definitely a great point! It can be a lot of fun to sometimes watch something with the only purpose to make fun of them!
I never finished even watching the first season of Majutsu no index, instead I decided to watch the much more endearing railgun spinoff.
[Reply]
Overlord-G Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 12:59 am
I’m surprised how many cool animeniacs (yourself included) I know that enjoyed Railgun much more than Index. Who am I to judge since I also liked Railgun more than Index. It also helps that the 1st OP rocks so hard!
Overlord-G´s latest post ..Street Fighter x Tekken: Toro and Kuro introduction + Personal Dream Match
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
That anime just had so much awesomeness! I even wrote a post about how great the series was x)
[Reply]
It’s nice to see someone out there defend the poor, downtrodden, angsty cowards of the anime universe. I also like how you separated those spineless harem bastards from the rest. Evangelion is a very unique series for me in that it is my favorite series, but it doesn’t have any of my favorite characters in it. But I have defended Shinji using the same points you brought up in the post. He’s a coward, he complains to an annoying degree, and he’s not necessarily a good person. But he is a great and nuanced character. I don’t know if you’ve seen Bakemonogatari, but the male lead is an interesting variation of this character type.
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Another Evangelion fan!
Nowadays when I hear people complain about Shinji, I often don’t even know what they would really rather see instead. He’s not my favourite character either, but he is definitely an interesting one!
I have seen Bakemonogatari, and now that I think about it, I totally see what you mean. Although Araragi is definitely more likeable to the masses.
[Reply]
Being weak does lower my opinion of a protagonist, personally. I’m more of a fan of a weak person using his weaknesses to his advantage, like Yukiteru (I honestly don’t see much hate against him to be honest. Must be going to the wrong websites). Nothing wrong with weak people growing strong, but it’s been done to death, and I’d like different variations on the matter.
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Or maybe you’re going to the write sites?
Yes the concept of a weak character rising to be the best is overused (although, Shinji never really becomes “strong”), but so is everything else at this point. Pick a character trait and you can immediately think of a dozen series that share that quality. Though that fact that you’ve grown tired of this, is a perfectly valid reason to not care as much to the series/character.
[Reply]
Whether a character is strong, weak, or average isn’t really what makes me like or hate them. If someone is written to be weak/average and nothing else, then of course they’ll be hard to like. The reason weaker characters may seem more interesting is because they’re usually weak for a reason. Very few characters are written as perfectly average on purpose (with the possible exception of Kyon), so they just wind up being more bland by comparison.
Yerocha´s latest post ..Kimi ni Todoke – Chapter 62
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
This is definitely true too. Another comment (draggle’s) touched up on this idea that a weak character with weak characterization is the ones that are really dislikeable. Whereas when you have a character that’s weak and as you mentioned, but has a lot of back story that supports his actions, they become more interesting. Though, a lot of the times the problem then becomes we get a main character with just a weak story to support them…
[Reply]
Man, every post I read today seems to be based off something Scamp said; even down to the Future Diary examples (last paragraph).
Rintarou was a weak lead, but everybody liked him because he had good characterization – to the point where nobody considered him a weak person anymore. Now, Yukiteru on the other hand – his personality goes all over the place. If there’s anything that should always, and always (did I mention always) pervade through every pore of a character, it’s his personality. If he’s weak, he’ll act weak. If he’s strong, he’ll act strong. If he gradually becomes strong from being weak, he’ll act like he’s gradually becoming strong from being weak.
I hate Yukiteru. His personality doesn’t match. He’s a weak character, but not because his personality is weak. He’s a weak character because his characterization is weak.
P.S. Using weak as a word really makes things confusing, doesn’t it
Mushyrulez´s latest post ..Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai Animated Commentary 12 True End
[Reply]
Mushyrulez Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Oh god that emoticon is hideous why did you enable emoticons on your site
Mushyrulez´s latest post ..Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai Animated Commentary 12 True End
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
fixed the emoticons to the old style…
I can agree that Rintarou had a shaky personality as the series progressed, but on the whole, I wouldn’t see him was weak. I guess you do have a point in that the series was told through his experiences and in the “lab” and there he had control and made it as a leader, but otherwise when he was in class nobody cared about him at all and undermined him. Thinking about it more, I see where you’re coming from.
I like Yukiteru…
PS: I’m only human….
[Reply]
I don’t have anything against characters who are “weak” – I just don’t like it if thet’re bland and uninteresting. I’m one of the people who doesn’t have a problem with Shinji. Sure, he’s whiny and weak-willed, but it makes sense for him to be that way considering his age, the horrific situations he’s placed in, and having virtually non-existent family support. I also love Catcher in the Rye, and if Shinji had the same sarcasm and potty mouth that Holden Caufield has, he’d be a lot more entertaining XD
It’s hard to say if Lelouch would be a weak character without his Geass. Unlike Shinji, his personality isn’t necessary weak and whiny. The Geass just gives him a big boost of bad ass.
What I dislike is the insufferably nice or bland male characters who are given pretty much no interesting character development and are mainly just “default” protagonists for male viewers to insert themselves into. Kujo from Gosick and Yuuto from Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu are good examples. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I’m also not big on overly yakuza-ish, “macho” male characters, like Kamina actually, unless they have a good soft, kind side as well.
But I certainly wouldn’t want all male protagonists to be all bad ass like Kamina nor all weak like Shinji. I enjoy seeing both since variety is one of anime’s strong points.
Yumeka´s latest post ..What makes a good introductory anime?
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
I definitely agree. Boring, almost “lifeless” are definitely more annoying, but I also think because there are more common people tend to just forget about them as time goes by.
That’s exactly my point, because Kamina and Shinji are unique, it makes them interesting. So if everybody became like them, it would defeat the purpose.
PS: I feel totally honoured that a blogger I respect so much (you) were inspired enough from this post to write your own. Thank you
[Reply]
There’s this unjust hate towards weak male characters because we set a standard on how a male should act IRL. I also agree with Draggle. It doesn’t really matter to me if the character is weak as long as he we will leave a strong impact on the story. I dislike Kujo from Gosick because not only he’s lame, he’s also unneeded. However, Shinji and Yuki’s lameness give a very strong impact on the show wherein the other characters are also dependent on their weaknesses. Most importantly, these weak male leads, like Shinji and Yuki, shine through their weaknesses.
SnippetTee´s latest post ..Afterthoughts on Mawaru Penguindrum: Apples and Its Symbolisms
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
My sister actually told me that people don’t like weak-willed characters because people don’t like to see what’s already part of their reality..which is in a way, true.
Kujo has been getting so much hate in these comments x) Not that I blame all of you, I agree as well. I agree, these characters also become interesting because of their weaknesses.
[Reply]
Weak-willed is unforgivable. Physically weak is ok. Think Nunally in Code Geas…physically frail but morally strong. My favorite example is Kenichi of Kenichi Mightiest Disciple…posterboy for the “90 pound weakling” at first, but Kenichi from start to finish always had an inner moral strength that NEVER waivers. That I admire.
JJR´s latest post ..A completely biased take on the Full Metal Panic Franchise
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
I haven’t seen/read Kenichi Mighiest Disciple, but based on what you say about the character, he does sound admirable. It’s always interesting to see such the classic underdog to hero sort of character development.
[Reply]
As many before me have already commented, physically weak is ok, but weak willed is the real problem here.
Like the protagonist from Chaos;Head…A real douche…:|
feal87´s latest post ..The dilemma of the writing style in an anime / VN related blog
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 11:50 pm
Well I was mostly referring to weak willed, and I agree that I hate the lead from Chaos;Head, but he was the only exception I could really think of that isn’t an interesting weak-willed character. Otherwise, as some also agree, Shinji or Yuki are interesting characters.
[Reply]
I have seen a lot of animes in the past that portrays their lead characters as almost perfect and invulnerable. I agree that weak lead characters is outside the norm, and though they are often discouraging, I am still looking forward to see them come out of their shells and become the hero they are destined to become.
Anthony´s latest post ..how to meet women
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
December 9th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
I totally understand how you feel. When you see a weak lead, you often hope that they will manage to help themselves in some way or another.
[Reply]
I don’t necessarily dislike a weak character, I dislike a character that gets weak characterization and doesn’t do anything to compensate. I don’t hate Shinji, for instance, as he does develop and start to become more sure of himself as Eva goes on.
Taking a look at KamiMemo though, the lead was one of the flattest I’ve seen in a long while despite playing a decent sized role.
I may harp on the use of emotionally weak characters, but if they’re well developed, I don’t mind.
[Reply]
lostty Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
Shinji does develop as the series goes on, but keep in mind that the moment he feels any sort of confidence, it disappears by the end of the episode x) Even at the end of the series (end of evangelion) he doesn’t end up improving….
I completely agree about KamiMemo, he really was so flat and boring, weak characterization definitely is the key factor.
[Reply]
Your taking a little from Code Geass! If you are going to take some thing away from the main character. Take away the riches, take the ability off,take the robot away from the start and also let him live a loner’s life. Let see if he won’t become a Shiji Ikari. Its more likely how the way the character is developed from the start. If you had a ****** start then it is harder for the character in question to be badass(kino for example became badass after she had training from a marksman). It also like the madoka hate(listened to the drama cd and noticed that she only became confident AFTER she became a mahou shoujou) complaining that she is weak and a wimp.
[Reply]